FireTalkers: Interview with Cleo ‘Jake’ Calloway, Jr. of Jake’s Barbeque Sauce

Cleo “Jake” Calloway, Jr., president and owner of Jake’s Barbeque Sauce and Seasonings Company, is one of the most passionate people I’ve ever talked to, and seems to be totally into what he does. He’s extremely helpful and accommodating, too – I gave him a list of sample questions that I would plan to ask him a few days in advance of our phone conversation, and he e-mailed me back condensed but detailed answers to each one, which aided tremendously in the editing of this interview. And just speaking to him, he exuded an honest enthusiasm and love of what he does that it was darn near infectious. It was hard not to like this guy and what he does; and after reviewing his Barbecue Sauces and his Basil Marinade, I would say he does it quite well.

Before interviewing him, I had only known him as Cleo and did not know of his nickname, so it led me to start out by asking him…

Scott: How did the company get its name and who is Jake?

Jake: Jake is my great-grandfather, whom I was nicknamed after. After developing my first sauce and gaining approval on the flavoring from my parents and I was talking with them about the products when my mother mentioned that I reminded her of her grandfather Jake. Jake was an old time barbecuer and spent hours upon hours perfecting his sauces and dry seasonings. She said that I have that same level of diligence and persistence and with that I name the company Jake’s.

Scott: How did you get involved in the BBQ business?

Jake: In a former career I had a global job acquiring, managing and building real estate and real estate related projects. My travels took me to China, India, Germany, France, Canada, London, Mexico, and beyond. In each of those cities I sampled their types of barbecue. My family is originally from Arkansas and doing a barbecue was like breathing…it happened practically everyday. After my global job ended I frequented my parent’s home where we planned to have a barbecue. My parents did not have barbecue Sauce so I hopped in the car and went with my Mom to get some. After getting the sauce home we marinated the meat and also used the sauce to cook with. On immediate use I was disappointed in the sauces results.

The sauce a particular brand that is becoming well known was thin, tasteless and disappointing. Needless to say my barbecue turned out poorly. I complained about the quality for hours and even into the next day while fishing I found myself continuing to complain. While I was standing there with my fishing pole in hand, my Mom looked up at me and said, “Why don’t you make your own sauce?” It didn’t mean much at the time but later while back in my condo in San Luis Obispo I began to think about what it would take. I got started doing research, going to stores, libraries, Farmer’s markets, online, out to local Santa Maria style barbecues and further I contacted people in the industry all with a focus on creating a better sauce.

After months of trial and error I came across just the right blend of ingredients, flavor and consistency. And in the nick of time I got another job working as a consultant, which led me to a testing base of about 500 people. I sampled the product for two months before settling on just the right flavor. And that is how we got started.

Scott: There are “casual” barbecuers everywhere in the U.S., you know, the ones who might have a little Weber grill sitting out on their patio or back porch, but aren’t necessarily hardcore grillers or smokers and will use big name, mass-produced sauces. What’s the “atmosphere” like in Southern California where Jake’s in based? Are people generally receptive to quality, all-natural gourmet sauces such as yours, or is it still sort of a “hard sell”?

Jake: There is a shift to more health conscious foods going on in California. The general consumer is becoming more sophisticated about what goes into there bodies. But overall there is still a high wall to cross when it comes to gourmet foods. The average person I think is more concerned about taste than ingredients, I know this because just think back on the last barbecue restaurant you went to, how many people asked the management to show them the nutrition facts for their sauces…more than likely none. People focus on barbecue as a nostalgic reminder concentrating subconsciously on a barbecue they had when they were children. What they remember is that taste that stuck in their minds and that is what they are trying to re-create. With the shifts in trends that are currently going on we’re starting to see a younger mindset toward barbecue as a gourmet centric offering which doesn’t need all the trappings of big grills, lots of space and smoke. A younger barbecuer’s focus is much more on barbecue as a compliment to their event not necessarily the main stage.

Scott: Describe what a typical day is like for you.

Jake: I start in around 6:30 AM working the internet and updating my website. I take calls and return emails for the better part of the morning. When necessary we pack packages and orders that were placed the day before. Following that I deal with some co-packers, private labelers and label companies or foreign clients. After some billing issues I focus in on finalizing updates to the website which can take about 3-4 hours more. Depending on the day I’ll head out to a restaurant and promote my products, later I’ll close the day by completing e-mails and finishing any outstanding web updates or analytics. My office day usually ends around 8:30 PM.

Scott: How many different recipes do you go through when developing a new product?

Jake: For a new dry rub will typically take between 10 and 15 trials to get the right version. I’ve gone as high as 20 for specific products. Outside of making sauces and rubs for myself I also work as a product development consultant for other companies, so I spend time developing their recipes and gaining their approval. I currently have 6 different products for others that are under worldwide distribution, which were developed in my office.

Scott: Your Basil Marinade & Salad Dressing is one of the “punchiest” and flavorful things I’ve tasted in recent memory. How were your
marinades developed?

Jake: The Basil Marinade was a way to extend our marketing presence after the base market for barbecue sauces tended to trail off around September/October of last year. I thought we could spread the market with products, which would help bring in a continuous income stream. I like different types of marinades but found that many of them used odd combinations to make their points. Things like berries and chilies, which sounds good but didn’t necessarily deliver in terms of marination. I studied and researched the marinating process, and realized that some of the basic elements for marinating were the use of natural acids, natural sugars and complimentary flavorings.

After going through 10 different marinade versions I landed on the blend of basil, rosemary, lime juice and pineapple juice concentrate. This blend combined elements of natural acidic juices; Mexican Lime with natural liquid sugars; pineapple each with built in tenderizing components. The only thing I would have changed is reducing or eliminating the cayenne component. Many, many people said they wanted a marinade with spice. I tested over 100 people and that is what they said. So when the product was built almost all of them said actually it would work for them but not for their families….a real disappointment. We had spent around $5,000 coming up with the product, labels and production only to get shut down by the very people who wanted the product. As they say, just because it tests well does not mean it sells well.

Scott: I know exactly how you feel with the family situation. I have so many sauces I would love to buy mass quantities of, but I can’t, because my wife and kids won’t eat the stuff, so more often than not I’m stuck eating more generic-tasting products. So have you basically discontinued the sale of your marinades?

Jake: For the time being we will sell the remainder of our stock of marinades on our website, but will discontinue them after that. Sometime in the distinct future, who knows if they’ll come back.

Scott: Your Medium and Inferno BBQ sauces are some of the few barbecue sauces that actually have some heat in them. How was the heat level decided for these products?

Jake: I again tested about 500 people asking them what they liked about hot sauces and what they didn’t like. I mention hot sauces and not barbecue sauces because my interest was in determining what elements were missing that could be ported over to my products. What I found was that the hot sauce market was completely inundated with products and they all lacked one primary component: flavor. I then asked what if you could get the flavor that you’re missing combined with a superior quality barbecue sauce. Every person immediately said, I would buy that right away.

I realized for this product to be realized it needed unique components. When I called on some memories of my travels to Asia, I remembered some incredible cooking styles I came across. One thing that was always prominent in their cooking was the use of ginger. I thought about how I could use that realizing that the ratio needed to have simple hints of ginger but now so much that it was a ginger sauce. I then thought about ways to get natural heat without compromising. During my research phase I learned about key ways to use jalapenos and habaneros, however the real key was creating a balance. That’s when I combined the three ingredients using ginger as the suspending agent that held down the heat of the chilies achieving a flavor profile first then residing to allow the heat components to move backward on the palate. The products moved like hotcakes!

Scott: Are you a chilehead at all?

Jake: No, I wouldn’t consider myself a “chilehead”, I would call myself a “flavorhead” instead, if there is such a thing. I’m really focused on tasting the food first, then experiencing some degrees of heat. For me my Medium Hot sauce is just fine, having anything else may be overkill. This is because my taste buds don’t experience much heat so having it sometimes shocks my system. The other reason is that I primarily don’t use salt in my foods, which makes it much, much easier to taste food as it was meant to be.

Scott: What is your absolute favorite kind of meat to grill or barbecue?

Jake: I love Tri-Tip. I like everything about it, the cut, the price, the flavor, the results you get when it is grilled, I think it is the most underrated cut of meat of all the pieces of beef.

If you’re not familiar with it, the Tri-Tip originated on the central California coast region, which consists of cities like Santa Barbara, Santa Maria and San Luis Obispo. For decades it was considered a less than desirable cut of meat, almost like “scraps”, and was usually cut up into things like smaller steaks or processed into ground beef. Around the 1950s it became a local delicacy and has become by favorite cut of meat.

Scott: If you had to pick a favorite sauce of yours, which would it be? What about a favorite rub or seasoning of yours?

Jake: For a seasoning, Tri-Tip, Steak and Rib rub is about our most versatile again because it can be used on beef, chicken, lamb, fish and seafood as well as vegetables and corn on the cob. As for sauces, I like my Original sauce because of its mildness and pure flavor.

Scott: Any new products we should be ready for from your line?

Jake: Yes, we’re introducing new dry seasoning rubs, namely our Xtreme Shake Dry Rub, our Seasonings Salt, and our Memphis Style Dry Rub. I’ve spent months developing these products to match authentic versions specific to their cities and states. The result is really great seasoning products that again are natural, wholesome and gourmet.

Scott: What is your favorite sauce or seasoning/rub that you don’t produce yourself?

Jake: Outside my own stuff I use Dan Jardine’s out of Texas, we’re good friends and he makes a good sauce. I just started using Armadillo Willy’s Real Texas Jalapeno Recipe BBQ Sauce. I like this because it goes well with Tri-Tip and has just a bit of heat. Other than that I have to be careful because I have certain food and MSG related allergies. One of the reasons our products are natural so I’m a little more discriminating when it comes to sauces.

Scott: How much sauce and rubs you do produce in a week or month?

Jake: We produced somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 jars a year in sauces alone. We do about that much in dry rubs and about 2,000 to 5,000 in marinades.

Scott: Where do you see Jake’s Barbecue Sauces five or ten years from now?

Jake: A solid brand that is still gourmet focused with great market spread.

Scott: If you could change one thing about the current barbecue or grilling industry, what would it be?

Jake: Perception, specifically the perception that good barbecue only comes from people in overalls on with large grills and lots of smoke. Barbecue has grown up in the last 30 years and as society gets younger the focus to that market has to change. I think the market is just about ready for a Chipotle-style concept barbecue restaurant and I think we’ll see that shortly.

Scott: What do you mean by a Chipotle-style barbecue restaurant?

Jake: You’ve been to Chipotle, where all the ingredients are laid out in front of you in separate pans? I envision the same, but only for barbecued foods and you get to pick and choose what you want.

Scott: Similar to Subway?

Jake: Yes, except it would focus on many types of barbecued meats and sides.

Scott: What is the most commonly asked question that you get?

Jake: “Who is Jake?”

Scott: How often do you enter sauce contests?

Jake: I tend to enter 10 or 15 contests a year. That keeps the product out front in peoples’ minds and helps build brand value.

Scott: What award win are you most proud of or was most memorable to you?

Jake: The International Taste and Quality Award comes immediately to mind, because of the fact that we are the only company in the U.S. to receive a Gold Medal for this sauce from the International Taste and Quality Institute in Belgium. To win that award, a product has to be a true gourmet product that is recognized by a true gourmet body of chef, sommeliers, cooks, sous chefs and restaurateurs. To get that made me feel very proud. Then of course winning the Golden Chile from the Fiery Food Challenge was a big thrill.

Scott: Let’s say you had unlimited capital, unlimited resources and unlimited time. Would there be any kind of “dream” product or even a service you would like to develop?

Jake: I would say if there is a service that would have a personal chef come to peoples’ home and make them a home-cooked meal. Just give them a call and they would come and deliver or prepare a meal for you, whether it is barbecue or other types of food.

Also, the Chipotle-type barbecue restaurant I had mentioned earlier.

Scott: Do you have one killer barbecue, grilling, or cooking tip you would like to share?

Jake: Yes, for Tri-Tip. The key to a great Tri-Tip is managing the overall cooking process. First buy Tri-tip that is lean with a reasonable amount of fat on the meat. Second, sear the Tri-Tip on the meat side first for 6 minutes, then turn over on the fat side and sear again for 6 minutes. This is important as it allows the fat juices to evenly blend throughout the Tri-Tip making it juicy. Once that’s done one simply needs to roast the Tri-Tip moving it to the cooler side of the grill checking the temperature and turning the Tri-Tip every 15 minutes or so until done. Once done let rest to allow the fluid to be absorbed into the meat, then serve. The resting part is probably the most important, if you cut into it too early the juices run out and the meat becomes tough.

Scott: If you could ask every barbecue or fiery foods fan in America one question, what would it be?

Jake: “Do you really know what your barbecue sauce is made of, and if you knew would you buy it again?”

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You can visit the Jake’s Barbecue Sauce Website to see and purchase Jake’s quality sauces, seasonings & rubs, and more.